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 Post subject: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:44 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Tujunga
there is no excuse for not enacting laws to confine shopping carts within their locations.

It is negligent, irresponsible for the L.A. City Council to ignore this public hazard!!!

The city of Westminister is among the many who have recently addressed this issue and passed appropriate laws
http://www.madmacedonian.com/2008/03/confronting-the.html

Call Councilmember Greuel's office ===>755-7676 <==== and remind them...
IF THEY CAN PASS IT, WHY CAN'T WE
... STOP THE ABANDONED SHOPPING CART PROBLEM AND COMPLY WITH 41.45 F AND ALSO REQUIRE ELECTRONIC WHEEL LOCKABLE SHOPPING CARTS.

_________________
Supermarkets, COMPLY WITH law ordinance at 41.45 F
"NO SHOPPING CARTS BEYOND THIS POINT" signs at supermarket sidewalk exits!!!
TELL EVERYONE!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:59 pm
Posts: 4212
stan wrote:
there is no excuse for not enacting laws to confine shopping carts within their locations.
................
It is negligent, irresponsible for the L.A. City Council to ignore this public hazard!!!


While I was at Wendy's Safety fair last Thursday in LVT, I had occasion to discuss this very subject with a manager of the Solid Waste Resource Management Department. He acknowledged that this an increasing problem and the city is conferring with Glendale that has a law on the books that does require a system to contain carts to the lot. Thus far - It has not been challenged by the Supermarket association to my knowledge. I'll bet their lobbyists are working hard to get it superseded by another state law. :twisted:
The best reference that I have found regarding the impact of the state law is a study by the city of Burbank here.
http://www.ci.burbank.ca.us/agendas/ag_ ... 007_2.html It goes into depth, the effect of the state law on city . They are also looking at Glendale's law. Here is Glendale's law. http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/gmc/12.32.asp
Here is a link to their flyer written in four languages http://www.ns.ci.glendale.ca.us/flyer_carts.pdf

On the sad side, there are already "fixes" on the internet that defeats the system but it does take a bit of technical knowhow and that could be mitigated with higher consequences for those caught with devices and carts once the systems are in place.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:44 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Tujunga
coop wrote:
While I was at Wendy's Safety fair last Thursday in LVT, I had occasion to discuss this very subject with a manager of the Solid Waste Resource Management Department. He acknowledged that this an increasing problem and the city is conferring with Glendale that has a law on the books that does require a system to contain carts to the lot. Thus far - It has not been challenged by the Supermarket association to my knowledge. I'll bet their lobbyists are working hard to get it superseded by another state law. :twisted:
The best reference that I have found regarding the impact of the state law is a study by the city of Burbank here.
http://www.ci.burbank.ca.us/agendas/ag_ ... 007_2.html It goes into depth, the effect of the state law on city . They are also looking at Glendale's law. Here is Glendale's law. http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/gmc/12.32.asp
Here is a link to their flyer written in four languages http://www.ns.ci.glendale.ca.us/flyer_carts.pdf
...


The report by the Burbank City Manager on the abandoned shopping cart problem is misleading in one respect. It does not mention that the CA State law DOES NOT address PREVENTION of abandoned shopping carts (other than a written notice affixed to the cart). Therefore, cities are not in conflict with state law when they write law PREVENTING SHOPPING CART REMOVAL FROM LOCATIONS. The Burbank report focuses on the CA State Law that restricts shopping cart RETRIEVAL laws and it's applicability at the municipal level. Therefore, there is no current conflict between the Glendale law, or others like it, and the CA state law regarding abandoned shopping carts.

That report is clearly a stalling tactic. Mislead the public so that the issue can be tabled.

Keep the issue visible and the problem will more likely be addressed. Government doesn't address issues that need to be solved but addresses issues that upsets the status quo.

_________________
Supermarkets, COMPLY WITH law ordinance at 41.45 F
"NO SHOPPING CARTS BEYOND THIS POINT" signs at supermarket sidewalk exits!!!
TELL EVERYONE!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:25 pm
Posts: 1240
Location: Sunland, CA
The long and the short of it is: As long as there are pedestrians walking to the supermarkets rather than arriving in cars, THEY will be using the shopping carts to take home their groceries. Of course, it would never occur to them to return the empty cart !!!! They just dump them any where and rely on the stores to hire drivers to come and do a sweep through the community and pick them up. You figure that if a good number of people go to the store EVERY week on foot, that's a LOT of abandoned carts. Even if there was a law, I don't think this would stop this problem. The only thing I've seen work is when the carts have a device that locks up when it comes to the supermarket's boundary line. Why don't more of the Firms have these preventive measures installed? My guess is, they simply don't care. If they lose a lot of carts and have to buy more, they can "up" their prices and get their money back that way. The aforementioned "pedestrians" are most commonly little old ladies that are foreign born, and don't know or could care less. And probably couldn't read enough English to read any signs of that sort anyway. If you think I'm pessimistic about this problem being solved. You're RIGHT.

Today's Quote: "The Past is History, The Future a Mystery, and Today is a Gift, that's why it's called the "Present."
(author unknown, sorry)


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 Post subject: Re: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:59 pm
Posts: 4212
stan wrote:
...............
That report is clearly a stalling tactic. Mislead the public so that the issue can be tabled.

Keep the issue visible and the problem will more likely be addressed. Government doesn't address issues that need to be solved but addresses issues that upsets the status quo.


As usual, your analysis is wrong , misleading or incomplete.
It was not a stalling tactic so the issue could be tabled.
From the California Grocer's Association website New laws for 2008.
http://www.cagrocers.com/doc.asp?id=930
I'll copy a small portion so that you don't have to strain yourself and actually do some thorough research for once.
New California State Laws 2008
Business
Burbank Shopping Carts
The City of Burbank passed a shopping cart ordinance requiring retailers to install an electronic containment system if the City observes five or more carts off store premises during a 24-hour period.

Carson Shopping Carts
The City of Carson passed a shopping cart ordinance requiring retailers to submit an “abandoned shopping cart prevention plan” to the City detailing how they intend to address abandoned shopping carts. Additionally, signs identifying the carts must be affixed to the shopping cart and each cart found off store property must be retrieved within 24-hours of notification.

Long Beach Shopping Carts
The City of Long Beach passed amendments strengthening their existing shopping cart ordinance. The amendments allow the city to fine retailers $100 for each shopping cart found off their property. If the city finds more than 10 shopping carts from one store in a 30-day period, the business will face a hearing with city officials to fix the shopping cart problem. If the carts continue to be a problem, retailers could face criminal prosecution.

Ontario Shopping Carts
The City of Ontario passed an ordinance requiring retailers with shopping carts to show proof they have a contract with a retrieval service or a plan to address the issue of abandoned carts.

San Diego Health Department Fee Increase
The City of San Diego Board of Supervisors passed a Department of Environmental Health fee package increase for fiscal years ‘07-‘08 and ‘08-‘09. Fees impacting the grocery industry (which includes such permits as health department inspections and rescore inspections) will be increased approximately 3% each year.

Ventura County Health Department Fee Increase
Ventura County passed a 5.3% increase on health permit fees issued by the Department of Environmental Health. The new fee structure became effective on July 1, 2007.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:44 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Tujunga
Ignore the naysayers. We know very clearly what they are trying to do.

The cities of Burbank and Glendale currently have shopping cart containment laws on their books. Pasadena is currently in the process of making that happen. Why doesn't Los Angeles do the same? Whether it is special interest influence or not, we the public must step up and be vocal. Tell Councilmember Greuel that it is nonsense to not follow the example of our neighbor cities. Los Angeles must enact a shopping cart containment law. **** CALL 755-7676 ****

The Abandoned Shopping Cart Problem ... shopping cart containment system laws or proposed laws for Burbank, Glendale, and Pasadena.


Burbank Shopping Cart Containment Ordinance 3716

http://www.burbankca.org/planning/pdf/ords/ord3716.pdf

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:SL ... cd=5&gl=us


Proposed Shopping Cart Containment Amendment to Pasadena Municipal Code Chapter 9.62
http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/councilage ... agenda.asp


Glendale Shopping Cart Containment Municipal Code Chapter 12.32 SHOPPING CARTS

http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/gmc/12.32.asp

_________________
Supermarkets, COMPLY WITH law ordinance at 41.45 F
"NO SHOPPING CARTS BEYOND THIS POINT" signs at supermarket sidewalk exits!!!
TELL EVERYONE!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Time to remind Councilmember Greuel that...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:59 pm
Posts: 4212
stan wrote:
Ignore the naysayers. We know very clearly what they are trying to do.

The cities of Burbank and Glendale currently have shopping cart containment laws on their books. Pasadena is currently in the process of making that happen. Why doesn't Los Angeles do the same? Whether it is special interest influence or not, we the public must step up and be vocal. ...........
.........
Burbank Shopping Cart Containment Ordinance 3716
http://www.burbankca.org/planning/pdf/ords/ord3716.pdf
..................
Glendale Shopping Cart Containment Municipal Code Chapter 12.32 SHOPPING CARTS
............
http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/gmc/12.32.asp


Do you actually read anyone else's posts or are you on auto-pilot when you turn on your computer in the morning?
Did you read my post prior to your response(?)
Now You just wrote a post that says that the Burbank staffing report is a delaying tactic aimed at shelfing the shopping cart issue in Burbank. When I respond with an actual law that is now on the books in Burbank in response to that report, you actually have the chutzpah to condemn the naysayers and quote as reference the very law that I found for you as evidence!
Just absolutely incredible. :roll:


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