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 Post subject: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:35 pm 
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It seems the homeless thing has really gotten bad lately. I had a guest over on Saturday and it was genuinely embarrassing to even make a run to Thailandia for some dinner..the amount of shopping carts, blankets and homeless sitting around was at a level I've never seen in all the years I've lived here. THIS is where I live..you know?? :(

Every night this week there's been about 5-6 shopping carts packed high and bums laying under blankets (as well as trash piled up next to them) right next to Image West Salon in the back of the Ralph's shopping center.

What can be done about this? I don't know enough about what is legal what isn't legal etc etc when it comes to the details of loitering vs. homeless.

This is an embarrassing blight. Is it worth calling the property owners of the Sunhill Center? Do they DO anything? If not, who DO you call? If it is not illegal to park a line of carts up and get under a blanket among bags of trash, then I'll just suck it in and call it a day. I'm not going to fight a losing battle here. But if there IS something I can do, I want these people moved off the property. They should not feel like this is their new home. Sorry, I have no solutions for where else they can go. That's not my purpose here.

Any phone numbers or info from those who feel they can help me out, I would appreciate it!


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:21 am 
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At last week's Land Use Committee meeting it was announced that Council District 2 has staff assigned to this issue and is working directly with the public agencies needed. I suggest you contact them at 818-352-3287. Let us know how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:50 pm 
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Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Cindy wrote:
At last week's Land Use Committee meeting it was announced that Council District 2 has staff assigned to this issue ................


I heard that Janice Hahn will be making a motion in the council to boycott B.U.M. Clothing as a show of solidarity for their cause. I think thats' her in the dirty sneakers and stocking cap pushing a shopping cart towards Sunland Park right now. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:22 pm 
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A few snaps of the last additions to our community, the Royal Order of Urban Pioneers!! Come one, come all to this special exhibition of a most amusing and enlightening subspecies of the genus Homosapiens, "Homowhereeverthedrugsnboozeisabitatilus" aka bums, junks drunks and tweeks! Witness their day to day struggle to drink, drug and smoke themselves stupid! Watch with abject wonder and amazement as they converse amoungst themselves in a language that has yet to be fully understood (unless you have Korsakov's syndrome), pee where they stand and actually attempt to walk in a straight line! Thrill to the antics of two drunkys fighting over something that only they can see! Gasp in wonder at the sight of 20 shopping carts full of garbage lining the front of "their" park! WOW!!


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File comment: This is what I have to deal with every time I take out my trash...I can't even do THAT in peace!
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File comment: Their parking lot....gee, I didn't know you could park your cart there!
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File comment: A nice little gathering.....
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File comment: What a lovely sight....
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File comment: Oh, them funluvin' urban pioneers..
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File comment: Such respect for their environment....
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File comment: So nice to stumble over this on my morning walk.
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parkbums1 copy.jpg [ 142.63 KB | Viewed 845 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:13 pm 
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You guys are going about solving this problem the wrong way. I'm a medic on an ambulance (in Santa Monica which is often called the homeless capital of the world) and I deal with these people every day, and have done so for years.

Does anyone here recall when America didn't have a homeless problem. I do. Sure, every small town had a Mayberry "Otis" type bum or two and the cities like New York had their "Bag Ladies" but the numbers of them on the streets were nothing like today.

Well, I remember exactly when the current problem began . . .

It started first in California in the 1970s, and it spread to the rest of the country in the 1980s. And not because California is a trend setter but because Ronald Regan was our Governor in California in the '70s and our President in the '80s. And he did the same thing in both jobs, he closed all the state mental institutions and stopped federal funds for government run mental health facilities. And where do you think all those people went? That's right, directly into the streets.

You can comfort and fool yourselves by calling these people alcoholics, druggies, and tweakers, but the truth of it (and again I see it every day) is 90% of these people are either mentally or physically ill, and often both. And there's nowhere for them to get help. And they are indeed people. They're our sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers. So you can go ahead and call the cops because you don't like looking at them. But we are really looking at ourselves. And until we attack the problem from a treatment standpoint it's not going to do anything but get worse. You said it yourselves. You said they were never here before and now they are (and everywhere else too.) And when the cops chase them away, were do they go? Do you just not care as long as it's not your neighborhood. What's your hoped for endgame in that?

We are so full of ourselves, as Americans, we can do anything, overcome anything, stand on our own two feet. But, like it or not, there is a certain group of us that can't, never could, and never will be able to care for themselves. So we have a few choices. We either, each of us, kick in a couple more bucks in taxes each year to reopen/rebuild the facilities Reagan closed, or we just start lining the homeless up against the wall and begin shooting them. The third choice is we do nothing and it's the most inhuman choice of the lot.

On your way to work all you see are bums living the easy life. When I pick these people up and put them in the back of my ambulance what I see are people who are hungry, what I see are people shivering from the cold. What I see are people crying until they have no more tears left, and what I see are people who need the touch of a caring fellow human being almost more than anything else. And as sick as these people are, sometimes I think the rest of us are sicker . . .

NickD


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Location: Glendale (La Crescenta)
Thank you NickG for helping with this problem. I too remember Reagan promising to replace the 'snake pit' type state mental institutions with caring local facilities - and then never funding any replacement facilities. I too remember the abuses of forced mental health 'care' but there's got to be a better way.

Ideas anybody?


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Location: Shadow Hills, CA
I also thank Nick for his post. Spot on.

I posted this previously but maybe it's worth repeating:

This is a controversial approach in some circles but as I have learned more about it, it makes sense to me.

Housing First (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_first) aka Rapid Re-housing is a relatively new system of homeless intervention in which a homeless person is placed directly from the street into permanent housing. This is a very different approach from most programs, which use the traditional "continuum of care" model that requires a series of transitions (for example first shelter, then group home, then individual housing) and often require people to address addiction or other problems as a precondition of housing. The idea is that the stability of permanent housing can better enable someone to work through addiction, mental illness, or other problems that contributed to their homelessness - thereby facilitating long-term recovery and positive change for the individual.

This type of program has been successful in several U.S. cities including San Francisco. I am not aware that such a program has been approached at the city level in LA, but one nonprofit has such a program for families: http://www.beyondshelter.org/aaa_progra ... irst.shtml


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:58 pm 
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The 2nd man pictured in Opalsattic's post with the blue shirt on the park bench with his back turned to the camera is Trucker Joe. He is not a drug addict or alcoholic. Just out of options. Too old and stubborn.
Everyone has a life story. I forget that sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:48 pm 
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NickDG wrote:
You guys are going about solving this problem the wrong way. I'm a medic on an ambulance (in Santa Monica which is often called the homeless capital of the world) and I deal with these people every day, and have done so for years.

Does anyone here recall when America didn't have a homeless problem. I do. Sure, every small town had a Mayberry "Otis" type bum or two and the cities like New York had their "Bag Ladies" but the numbers of them on the streets were nothing like today. ....................


Since you've taken upon yourself to criticize those that don't want to see the park turned into a place that folks won't take a stroll with their children.
You're not tugging at my heartstrings with that diatribe.

I don't think we're talking about the same group of homeless. These people are younger able-bodied men who stand in front of stores and intimidate shoppers as they enter and leave. More and more of them seem to have gotten the word that this is the place to be.
Are you encouraging the "Bums" in Santa Monica to migrate to greener pastures?
Santa Monica has had it with this people.

Yep. We have our "Bag Ladies" and local characters. You don't hear us complaining about them. HHD has been out to see them and they don't want any help. These aren't mentally ill persons
Can you get that through your skull?

It's this new breed of "bums" that I'm complaining about.
S-T is nor going to solve this problem alone and I don't want any local accommodation given to encourage these miscreants.
We are at the outer edge of the city and for all intents, we are the forgotten stepchild of Los Angeles that has had to fight for every scrap of city services.
What a better place to dump all the human debris?


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:37 pm 
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cacti wrote:
The 2nd man pictured in Opalsattic's post with the blue shirt on the park bench with his back turned to the camera is Trucker Joe. He is not a drug addict or alcoholic. Just out of options. Too old and stubborn.
Everyone has a life story. I forget that sometimes.


When I first viewed these pictures I stared at the 2nd one for a long time. I could just tell that this man was not a cracked out alcoholic bum but rather a person in need of help. His shopping cart's belonging are neatly stored. His clothes are pressed and clean. But I do not want him living in the park either. He is not out of options. The city offers options and when these people decide not to take them then I assume they are breaking vagrancy laws and should be arrested. Unless there are consequences there will be no motivation to take the help offered or move on.

Anyone know what the laws are for vagrancy, public intoxication, public defecation, public urination? And why are these laws not being enforced?


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Mountair wrote:
cacti wrote:
The 2nd man pictured in Opalsattic's post with the blue shirt on the park bench with his back turned to the camera is Trucker Joe. He is not a drug addict or alcoholic. Just out of options. Too old and stubborn.
Everyone has a life story. I forget that sometimes.


When I first viewed these pictures I stared at the 2nd one for a long time. I could just tell that this man was not a cracked out alcoholic bum but rather a person in need of help. His shopping cart's belonging are neatly stored. His clothes are pressed and clean. But I do not want him living in the park either. He is not out of options. The city offers options and when these people decide not to take them then I assume they are breaking vagrancy laws and should be arrested. Unless there are consequences there will be no motivation to take the help offered or move on.

Anyone know what the laws are for vagrancy, public intoxication, public defecation, public urination? And why are these laws not being enforced?


Those laws recently changed. Ask the SLO or perhaps a google search. I think there has been a change that has been keeping the PD at bay but I lack any tangible details, just seem to recall a conversation with some policeman over the guys lining up on Foothill in front of Chevron.

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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Municipal Code (Last amended by legislation effective June 19, 2010)
http://www.amlegal.com/los_angeles_ca/

SEC. 41.47.2. URINATING OR DEFECATING IN PUBLIC.
(Added by Ord. No. 175,626, Eff. 12/16/03.)

No person shall urinate or defecate in or upon any public street, sidewalk, alley, plaza, beach, park, public building or other publicly maintained facility or place, or in any place open to the public or exposed to public view, except when using a urinal, toilet or commode located in a restroom, or when using a portable or temporary toilet or other facility designed for the sanitary disposal of human waste and which is enclosed from public view.


SEC. 41.45. UNAUTHORIZED REMOVAL, USE OR POSSESSION OF SHOPPING CARTS.
(Amended by Ord. No. 129,180, Eff. 1/30/65.)

(a) Removal. No person shall remove any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device from the premises or parking area of any business establishment if such shopping cart, basket or device has permanently affixed to it a sign identifying it as belonging to such business establishment and a notification to the effect that such cart, basket or device is not to be removed from the owner’s premises.
The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to removal by the owner or his agent or an employee of the business, nor to removal by a customer of the business possessing the written consent of its owner manager or authorized agent.

(b) Abandonment. No person shall abandon or leave any such shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device which has been removed from the owner’s premises upon any public street, alley, sidewalk, parkway or other public place, nor upon any private property except that of the owner of such cart, basket or device.

(c) Possession. No person shall have in his possession any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device which has been removed from the owners premises and which has permanently affixed to it a sign identifying it as belonging to a business establishment and notification to the effect that such cart, basket or device is not to be removed from the owners premises.
The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to possession by the owner or his agent or an employee of the business nor to possession by a customer of the business possessing the written consent of its owner, manager or authorized agent.

(d) Use. No person shall use any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device for any purpose other than that originally intended by such business without the owner’s written consent.

(e) Alteration. No person shall alter, convert or tamper with any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device or remove any part thereof without the owner’s written consent.

(f) Notice. Each business establishment owning such shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device shall place at each of its exits a sign notifying its customers and the general public of the aforesaid prohibitions. Such notification shall be placed in such a position and be of sufficient size and legibility so as to insure that persons leaving such places of business shall be fully informed of the prohibitory provisions contained in this section.

(g) Fine. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this Code to the contrary the violation of any of the provisions or the failure to comply with any of the mandatory requirements of this section shall be punishable only by a fine of not more than $50.00.


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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:49 pm 
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I'm not without sympathy for those that have been kicked out of the system with no tangible way to live. Are they all without family? However, I also know that quite a few of these people are your garden variety drug abusers who have chosen NOT to get help in order to continue their habit. I guess they haven't hit their bottom yet. I do agree that closing the mental facilities have caused untold problems. It seems that the programs that help the most needy are always the first to get cut. Sort of what is happening now (and Reagan's dead, so we can't blame him).

I think a lot of us on this forum have helped people who have been down and out during the years, so please don't paint us as stone cold snobs. The answer is that our elected officials need to get paid a realistic salary (as opposed to the inflated one they now recieve), turn in their city paid cars and expense accounts and put that money towards programs aimed at helping the mentally ill. But that isn't going to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, I am stepping over human feces in order to get to the bus.


Last edited by slumpbottom on Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bum Camp Next To Image West
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:54 pm 
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QueenOfTheMountain wrote:
Municipal Code (Last amended by legislation effective June 19, 2010)
http://www.amlegal.com/los_angeles_ca/

SEC. 41.47.2. URINATING OR DEFECATING IN PUBLIC.
(Added by Ord. No. 175,626, Eff. 12/16/03.)

No person shall urinate or defecate in or upon any public street, sidewalk, alley, plaza, beach, park, public building or other publicly maintained facility or place, or in any place open to the public or exposed to public view, except when using a urinal, toilet or commode located in a restroom, or when using a portable or temporary toilet or other facility designed for the sanitary disposal of human waste and which is enclosed from public view.


SEC. 41.45. UNAUTHORIZED REMOVAL, USE OR POSSESSION OF SHOPPING CARTS.
(Amended by Ord. No. 129,180, Eff. 1/30/65.)

(a) Removal. No person shall remove any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device from the premises or parking area of any business establishment if such shopping cart, basket or device has permanently affixed to it a sign identifying it as belonging to such business establishment and a notification to the effect that such cart, basket or device is not to be removed from the owner’s premises.
The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to removal by the owner or his agent or an employee of the business, nor to removal by a customer of the business possessing the written consent of its owner manager or authorized agent.

(b) Abandonment. No person shall abandon or leave any such shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device which has been removed from the owner’s premises upon any public street, alley, sidewalk, parkway or other public place, nor upon any private property except that of the owner of such cart, basket or device.

(c) Possession. No person shall have in his possession any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device which has been removed from the owners premises and which has permanently affixed to it a sign identifying it as belonging to a business establishment and notification to the effect that such cart, basket or device is not to be removed from the owners premises.
The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to possession by the owner or his agent or an employee of the business nor to possession by a customer of the business possessing the written consent of its owner, manager or authorized agent.

(d) Use. No person shall use any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device for any purpose other than that originally intended by such business without the owner’s written consent.

(e) Alteration. No person shall alter, convert or tamper with any shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device or remove any part thereof without the owner’s written consent.

(f) Notice. Each business establishment owning such shopping cart, shopping basket or other similar device shall place at each of its exits a sign notifying its customers and the general public of the aforesaid prohibitions. Such notification shall be placed in such a position and be of sufficient size and legibility so as to insure that persons leaving such places of business shall be fully informed of the prohibitory provisions contained in this section.

(g) Fine. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this Code to the contrary the violation of any of the provisions or the failure to comply with any of the mandatory requirements of this section shall be punishable only by a fine of not more than $50.00.


What took you so long? :mrgreen:

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and/or The Sunland Tujunga Independent or Tomi Realty

818-353-9143


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